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Brodie Chapman's avatar

15 years a vegan - and a professional athlete. I appreciate reading your perspectives - however I wouldn’t say using personal examples of who you know and your objective view of healthy as scientific example. It’s like me saying I know a guy who ate red meat every day and then he got cancer - I cannot say for sure it’s a causal relationship but it’s an attention grabbing statement. As others have mentioned there are many cultures who thrive off a mostly vegan diet, and the supplement industry doesn’t rely only on vegans to stay afloat, that’s for sure. In fact the luxury of the first world is that we have access to factory farmed meat at every single meal every single day. We have access to milk of other animals in almost every meal. So if what is “natural” is an argument then the standard American diet is far from natural. I accept that I live in a country where I have choice and access to whatever food I want. So if I have that privilege why not then CHOOSE foods that do not equate animal cruelty, suffering, unsustainable farming practices and health consequences. If ominvores also eat the same processed shit I do, is it at least not worth striving for less harm? You will find most ethical vegans also embrace other sustainable practices, “dieting” vegans will probably not remain vegan, and move onto the next fad diet. I’d rather take a processed b12 pill than know that I need to rely on someone else slaughtering a frightened animal, which is ironically also filled with artificial processed feed, and medicines. . It comes down to what is humane and sustainable. Feed the soy to the humans. Use lab grown shit for nutrients for all I care, evolve away from cruelty and excess. If we lived In a society where we all owned one cow and we could sustainably share that cow amongst our close family (some cultures do live like this) then perhaps my diet choice would look different. But we don’t live like that, especially in the West, so let’s adapt, ethically.

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Andrew Perlot's avatar

We have to be skeptical of observational studies because of confounding variables, but some of the most interesting and high-quality studies in this space come from decades of Adventist health studies, which neutralize many of those variables by looking at members of a shared faith culture that receive the same health-focused message from their faith and church leaders.

The average Adventist lives years longer than the average Californian.

And among the Adventists:

The adjusted hazard ratio (HR) for all-cause mortality in all vegetarians combined vs nonvegetarians was 0.88 (95% CI, 0.80-0.97).

The adjusted HR for all-cause mortality in vegans was 0.85 (95% CI, 0.73-1.01);

in lacto-ovo–vegetarians, 0.91 (95% CI, 0.82-1.00);

in pesco-vegetarians, 0.81 (95% CI, 0.69-0.94); and in semi-vegetarians, 0.92 (95% CI, 0.75-1.13)

I think all this is tentative. And some confounding variables are hard to correct for. But there's very reason to think that directionally, this sort of whole foods-focused vegetarian, pesco-vegetarian, or vegan diet is just fine, if not completely optimal.

Compared to most fad diets, it's a massive step up. I'd argue that anyone claiming definitively what exactly must be consumed, in what ratio, is going more more on dogma than precise science.

I'm not a vegan because I don't hold the ideology, and you know from my writing how I feel about self-labeling making us stupid.

But I have severe autoimmune issues and allergies and avoid meat and dairy because it keeps my colitis in remission while avoiding several other problems. And even though I can eat eggs and honey, I rarely do this, and perhaps consume them twice a year on average. I take a B12 pill. I get most of my protein from whole legumes, but have no problem taking a scoop of pea protein powder on days where it's required to reach my .80 to .90 g / pound protein target. Outside of this, I eat very little of the processed foods you spend a lot time talking about in this article as if its an inextricable element of a plant-based diet. If I go visit family I'll probably be served a beyond burger and will eat it, but it's not really a thing for me. Most of that stuff didn't even exist when i started twenty years ago. I do like eating some tofu perhaps once a week, but the health benefits are well established and rather lindy after centuries of tofu eating in China and Japan.

Despite this, my health is excellent after 20 years on variations of this regime, and I perform very well athletically in all my pursuits.

I'm all for calling out the problems of processed food, but I'm not sure there's a strong body of evidence pointing out the downsides of a well-planned vegan diet. Compared to the dietary idiocy of the American public, whatever marginal benefit that might accrue from adding small amounts of animal products seems so statistically small that I'm not sure it's worth getting worked up about.

I agree that most vegans don't eat well. But then most omnivorous Americans make even poorer food choices, statistically speaking.

There's a whole series of good Adventist studies, but here's one to start with:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1710093?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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