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Collette Greystone's avatar

This was kind of dark.

Maybe you know about these ideas, maybe not. Living in Utah I learned from LDS about the idea of the “two year store”. I wrote about that once:

https://collettegreystone.substack.com/p/thoughts-on-being-civil-and-self

Other sources: https://easyhealthyfoods.com/why-do-mormons-store-food/

The LDS church used to provide canneries (25 years ago) where anyone could go and can their own food, now there are only few actual canneries: https://ezprepping.com/lds-cannery-food-storage-center-locations-near-you/#canning-locations

There’s a whole network of preppers: https://prepper.com/

You don’t have to rely on the grocery store - ever - if you don’t want to.

I know that wasn’t the gist of what you were presenting here….

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

The LDS have a good plan. I live in Arizona with a lot of Mormon friends. During COVID I joked about in biting the Missionaries in when things get crazy to take advantage of that 2 year store.

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barely ablemann's avatar

civilization exists because humans have found that it works better than marauding.

in the short term and under stress, people can do the unthinkable.

there may be more resiliency in relationships than you imagine. T. Jefferson said,

"you don't know how much is enough, until you have had too much"

and I might add, until you have had too little.

our self-image, our morality, our goodness depends on religion, or how we define what is sacred.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

That's a good point.

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Michael Scranton's avatar

We're still apes flinging poo at each other. When you accept this, you gain clarity.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

You're not wrong in any way.

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Dale's avatar

Have done those ‘what if’ scenarios. Fear and anger are powerful emotions - two sides of the same coin according to Col. Jeff Cooper of Gunsite. He wrote a short book on seven attitudes to win a gunfight but I can’t remember the title.

His use of anger was detrimental to my well being. I have also gave thought to Christian nonviolence. I have more enjoyable mental health but I also have kept my firearms.

The anger on both sides of the political spectrum have curtailed dialogue and compromise. Having read some libertarian and state rights perspectives, allowing the states to experiment with and set different boundaries rather than have the federal government dictate one for everyone, then people moving to states the align more with their perspective.

I have a pessimistic view on mankind’s long term survival on its current trajectory. Nature plays the long game and determines the rules and the survivors. If we won’t play by her rules, we will be eliminated, or a large percentage of us will be, so that our parasitic affect on nature is brought back into a more symbiotic balance.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

It really is an interesting place we find ourselves but not far off from much of history. It's crazy how bad it's been in the past!!

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Dale's avatar

It is different now. Starting with the Industrial Revolution, the tools, civilian and militarily, so leverage our ideas that they have more impact, more quickly. And with the world population going from 1 billion to past 8 billion in the last century, on our way to 9 or 10. The pollution of air, land, and sea is affecting our climate and our health (CO2, microplastics, etc). The only thing I see worse before the IR were the Black Death pandemics.

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Jojo's avatar

I wish I had learned about the outdoors, how to hunt and camp when I was a kid!

The History channel on cable usually has one or more programs that show people living off grid or in survival situations that perhaps you can get a taste of how to deal with survival scenarios in some of the situations you mention. I hope I have retained some of what I've watched in case I ever need the knowledge.

And yes, I would kill and eat you if the choice came down to you or me. May the best man survive.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

Haha. Nice. What I've learned from those TV shows is that it's a lot harder to survive than most people think!

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Data Frank's avatar

Reading this made me realize how much of what we call morality is really just stability made possible by full shelves and steady power

So I wonder, when we talk about protecting “tradition” as Chesterton’s fence suggests, how do we distinguish between structures that genuinely uphold civilization and those that only preserve power for a few?

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

That's a great question and one the very same Chesterton’s Fence challenges us to recognize. For example, attacking the patriarchy and pushing it away unlocked a lot of bad male behaviors because the patriarchy first controls men and then controls women attempting to enter men’s spaces.

The matriarchy was abandoned overtly though it still works through soft power. We thought the patriarchy was about control but missed who it controlled.

All part of the conversation down to what you ask.

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Andrew Smith's avatar

I listened to this one while walking, but I am pretty confident I heard the words "dick", "sperm", and "semen." You sure you should be lecturing people on the nature of evil there, Satan?

(please read the above in "Church Lady" voice)

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

Not sure where but you're probably not far off.

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Andrew Smith's avatar

Technically, it was "seamen", but the other two were legit! Also, "seaman" was in quick succession. It came right after.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

Ahhh. Whaling. Got it.

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Andrew Smith's avatar

"Whaling"? is that what the kids are calling the deed these days?

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Martin Prior's avatar

Wow. You’ve thoroughly depressed me here Michael.

Only joking.

Seriously though. It would be useful to dig into some of the reasons behind the loss of food supply and see where some of the upstream frailties could be addressed to build some more resilience.

I wonder if that might actually show things to be more resilient than we first thought.

The pandemic was an interesting example. Imagine a worldwide plague that shuts down large parts of the economy. You could easily draw a logical path towards the breakdown of society. And yet….it didn’t breakdown. All things considered, society did pretty well and without marshal law.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

I agree. It helps frame the seriousness. I keep covid in mind all the time.

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Freedom and Liberty's avatar

Did you use AI in writing it? It seems many sections are kinda odd and wrong in there references.

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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

I don't use AI for my writing. What did you find that was in error?

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