No question that our physical appearance is a multichannel broadcast, but in addition to clothing that also means our hair, height, physique, skin tone, facial features, teeth, everything that's visible. I do feel this post is a touch overthinking things... not everything about clothes is about sexuality. Clothes have a practical side to them, as well as an expressive side that aligns with our identity rather than sexuality. We also can't worry too much about what we communicate to everyone bc we cannot control what others think. Granted, in certain heavily patriarchal societies, the women and girls are basically told what to wear (you can guess what I think about that!) But if I had to think about what others are going to think about what I wear I'd never leave the house.
Personally, I like to dress nice for me, first and foremost, whether I'm going out with someone or not. I also feel it's important to dress the part—if I go for a 9-mile hike like we just did, I wear my hiking gear, for safety and comfort. If it's a business meeting, a sharp-looking outfit. When I was working in the camera dept on Hollywood films, I wore a vintage pilot's overalls, military fatigues, and a tool belt. Think what you want about all that :)
I covered some of your first part in The Beauty Quandary a few months ago about the other features and you're right. They do matter. (That essay was linked near the top of this one)
As far as the other outfits I also agree. Some of it is practical but there are also a lot of stereotype signals we send. Take that hiking outfit. How many brand names were being worn? It's not sexual signalling (though with the form fit and cuts they have now you get both) but it is signalling other things.
I also think many of us really do know what we're doing and can own the signal responses. I'm just fascinated how many people seem willfully ignorant of the implications.
The brand names aren't visible but the gear is made specifically for hiking—convertible pants, three layers for the torso for moisture wicking and coverage against wind, good socks, sturdy high quality hiking boots. The key is comfort and safety for long hikes. It really isn't about signaling anything. Sure, you could say other hikers we pass by might notice what we're wearing but the intent is not to show off anything, it's literally to stay warm (or cool) as needed.
Well, maybe the bunnies and the deer did notice, and are now discussing our outfits amongst themselves... :)
Right, but wear that outfit off the trail and your certainly signalling. Just like yoga pants and a tank top are highly practical in a studio and signal differently elsewhere.
Going up a Carhartt was lightly practical winter wear. It also signalled a different culture than my snowboarding jacket which was just as practical for the winter.
That's where the blend of stereotype signalling blends with clothing and selection signalling. (think snow bunnies on the ski hill)
The skillful person adapts to all these nuances and understands the signals and has agency over them.
You're right that not everything is sexual and I hope I left enough wiggle room for that in this essay which was focuses on that one element.
Mmm I disagree Michael. I did wear the outfit off the trail... we went straight for dinner, in the same hiking gear. No overt signaling there... everyone else in the restaurant was wearing all sorts of different clothes.
Now, if a couple came into the same restaurant wearing fancy evening clothes, or wore an opera ball gown to go hiking, you bet your hundred bunnies that heads would turn!
In general, I would say here in America people dress down, or dress a lot more casually. I'm from Europe, and people always ask me "why are you so dressed up" when for my tastes, I'm actually not. Clothes are highly cultural, so that's really when the communication signals you're talking about come into play.
Given the topic, I couldn't resist clicking on your profile pic to see what you might be, intentionally or unintentionally, communicating. You wrote that you take pains with grooming and workout, and, looking at your photo, I see no reason to doubt that self-assessment. Your beard is nicely trimmed, muscles nicely filling out what might look like merely a conventional business shirt on another body. Am I a cad for saying so? Probably. As an older gay man I suspect I'm not the target audience of your fashion choices. But I think there's value -- and indeed morality -- in owning our own eroticism. Societal suppression of sexuality is a big driver of bad behavior and so much goes right when we allow ourselves to be who we are, to be, as you quote, "in our bodies." Thanks for a courageous piece.
Clothing absolutely communicates a message, something I became hyper-aware of right as I was getting into punk rock. I chose to communicate a huge middle finger to sexual selection norms (T-shirts way too big, deliberate ugly piercings, brightly colored hair), and to everything else considered "societal." That's kind of what 18 year olds do, I guess: take everything to the extreme.
#MeToo applies to us too. I was a massive flirt when I was younger but #MeToo (and #HimToo) made me rethink things. Well, at my age I'm not as touchy-feely as I was when I was a cute 25-year-old belly dancer (and that was, erm, decades ago) and I don't think I ever grabbed someone's crotch but the rules IMO really do apply to us too, and no, not all female attention, overt or otherwise, is always welcomed. Not do I think men 'should be grateful for any attention they get'. Just imagine if someone said that about a fat, homely woman.
I think this is nonsense. The girl is communicating that she’s hot, she’s perfectly prepared for that to “land” and people to think she’s hot or press the like button - nasty comments from grown ups are not an appropriate way to communicate that they think she looks hot. If I wear a Star of David I’m communicating that I’m Jewish - I’m prepared for everyone to understand that. If someone attacks me, cusses me out and throws paint or acid at me - that’s them being violent and horrible not me communicating wrong. Additionally when it comes to women’s attractiveness there’s a decades, centuries long pressure on them that they Have to communicate that they’re attractive or they won’t be taken seriously professionally or treated well in everyday errands. For example, to me stilettos communicate sex and are impractical as fuck. But women not wearing heels have literally been told they’re not professional and it’s not random that Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris and Nicki Haley all constantly wear heels - they feel it’s the safe correct choice and not because they’re communicating that they’re looking for lovers or sexual compliments from everyone.
I see where you're coming from but I don't completely agree with the conclusion. The goal of this essay is to really ensure we ARE looking at all the communication implications.
More often than not, in my world, women who wear heels are not taken as seriously as those who don't.
As far as the girl in the video, she is prepared in part. But we aren't talking about nasty comments from adults, they are trying to protect her.
To your point of the Star of David, remember the number of times I caveated that I'm not victim blaming for bad behavior.
Yes you caveat but that makes the rest not make sense. Because what are they trying to protect her from except for bad behavior on other’s part? It only makes sense if the argument is that - communicating you’re attractive makes it okay for people to do X where X is unpleasant and bad behavior on someone else’s part.
That's not my goal but it is. You don't have the freedom to communicate anything divorced from interpretation. That's like covering yourself in steaks and jumping into a shark tank and being upset at the outcome.
What is that last sentence but victim blaming? Human beings aren’t sharks and are responsible for their own actions. I wouldn’t be surprised to be attacked but it would still be wrong, on their part, not mine.
Now actual interpretation - like “hmm, he isn’t dressed corporately enough for the image we want to project so we won’t hire him” is a real thing that young people should be taught but none of it is about inappropriate sexual advances or assault.
Mike, you and I talked about this the other night. So many areas to think about. One of the things that I gave thought about was young me at 21 in 1983. I was an engineering intern and my office group was located in a warehouse. I had to walk through the warehouse to use the restroom. I would get cornered by this man and he would grab my hands and hold them. As much as it seems like an automatic thing for us now, that I should have said "no, this makes me uncomfortable" I didn't know that that was an option. I'm hoping that my younger counterparts are equipped to communicate when they are uncomfortable. I can see how this does fit with what you wrote about. I was a professionally dressed female in a warehouse with ALL men. It makes sense that I would get a response. I'm happy you are raising your children properly. You are having them think. I'm really lucky that my 6 ft tall daughter is way more of a bad ass that I ever was (I wasn't LOL).
Right. Nothing you wore justified his response. A burka wouldn't have helped his behavior either probably. I'm glad we no longer think this is acceptable.
It communicates a lackadaisical approach, a modern rejection of social norms plus a clear tribal affiliation to a sport and sports teams. If your figure matches the profile of a soccer player it may indicate a level of physical prowess underneath.
If your figure does not match then it creates other questions.
Remember a burka or as one of the commenters pointed out, Punk clothing was intended to thumb their nose at traditional sexual signaling.
To the men, it signals that they'd be comfortably confident to comment on the latest match or footballer drama in the news.
No question that our physical appearance is a multichannel broadcast, but in addition to clothing that also means our hair, height, physique, skin tone, facial features, teeth, everything that's visible. I do feel this post is a touch overthinking things... not everything about clothes is about sexuality. Clothes have a practical side to them, as well as an expressive side that aligns with our identity rather than sexuality. We also can't worry too much about what we communicate to everyone bc we cannot control what others think. Granted, in certain heavily patriarchal societies, the women and girls are basically told what to wear (you can guess what I think about that!) But if I had to think about what others are going to think about what I wear I'd never leave the house.
Personally, I like to dress nice for me, first and foremost, whether I'm going out with someone or not. I also feel it's important to dress the part—if I go for a 9-mile hike like we just did, I wear my hiking gear, for safety and comfort. If it's a business meeting, a sharp-looking outfit. When I was working in the camera dept on Hollywood films, I wore a vintage pilot's overalls, military fatigues, and a tool belt. Think what you want about all that :)
Great points.
I covered some of your first part in The Beauty Quandary a few months ago about the other features and you're right. They do matter. (That essay was linked near the top of this one)
As far as the other outfits I also agree. Some of it is practical but there are also a lot of stereotype signals we send. Take that hiking outfit. How many brand names were being worn? It's not sexual signalling (though with the form fit and cuts they have now you get both) but it is signalling other things.
I also think many of us really do know what we're doing and can own the signal responses. I'm just fascinated how many people seem willfully ignorant of the implications.
The brand names aren't visible but the gear is made specifically for hiking—convertible pants, three layers for the torso for moisture wicking and coverage against wind, good socks, sturdy high quality hiking boots. The key is comfort and safety for long hikes. It really isn't about signaling anything. Sure, you could say other hikers we pass by might notice what we're wearing but the intent is not to show off anything, it's literally to stay warm (or cool) as needed.
Well, maybe the bunnies and the deer did notice, and are now discussing our outfits amongst themselves... :)
Right, but wear that outfit off the trail and your certainly signalling. Just like yoga pants and a tank top are highly practical in a studio and signal differently elsewhere.
Going up a Carhartt was lightly practical winter wear. It also signalled a different culture than my snowboarding jacket which was just as practical for the winter.
That's where the blend of stereotype signalling blends with clothing and selection signalling. (think snow bunnies on the ski hill)
The skillful person adapts to all these nuances and understands the signals and has agency over them.
You're right that not everything is sexual and I hope I left enough wiggle room for that in this essay which was focuses on that one element.
Mmm I disagree Michael. I did wear the outfit off the trail... we went straight for dinner, in the same hiking gear. No overt signaling there... everyone else in the restaurant was wearing all sorts of different clothes.
Now, if a couple came into the same restaurant wearing fancy evening clothes, or wore an opera ball gown to go hiking, you bet your hundred bunnies that heads would turn!
In general, I would say here in America people dress down, or dress a lot more casually. I'm from Europe, and people always ask me "why are you so dressed up" when for my tastes, I'm actually not. Clothes are highly cultural, so that's really when the communication signals you're talking about come into play.
Given the topic, I couldn't resist clicking on your profile pic to see what you might be, intentionally or unintentionally, communicating. You wrote that you take pains with grooming and workout, and, looking at your photo, I see no reason to doubt that self-assessment. Your beard is nicely trimmed, muscles nicely filling out what might look like merely a conventional business shirt on another body. Am I a cad for saying so? Probably. As an older gay man I suspect I'm not the target audience of your fashion choices. But I think there's value -- and indeed morality -- in owning our own eroticism. Societal suppression of sexuality is a big driver of bad behavior and so much goes right when we allow ourselves to be who we are, to be, as you quote, "in our bodies." Thanks for a courageous piece.
And when I was younger I might have been creeped out by a gay man's attention. Now I realize my signal was landing. So thank you for the compliment. 😀
Beta slob here!
Clothing absolutely communicates a message, something I became hyper-aware of right as I was getting into punk rock. I chose to communicate a huge middle finger to sexual selection norms (T-shirts way too big, deliberate ugly piercings, brightly colored hair), and to everything else considered "societal." That's kind of what 18 year olds do, I guess: take everything to the extreme.
Great example! And people received that signal and reacted.
What is a male engineer communicating at work wearing cargo pants with zippers that convert to shorts?
A). Ready for retirement.
B). Confident and hard working.
C). Overweight and just doesn’t care because no matter what he does he’ll never be in the in crowd.
Hey now, I'm a male engineer and I love my cargo pants that convert to shorts! (though for hiking only) :)
I did wear non converting cargo pants for a very long time until I got senior enough that I switched to dockers and button downs.
Now I love rocking tapered jeans, starwars t-shirts, and a tailored sport coat.
#MeToo applies to us too. I was a massive flirt when I was younger but #MeToo (and #HimToo) made me rethink things. Well, at my age I'm not as touchy-feely as I was when I was a cute 25-year-old belly dancer (and that was, erm, decades ago) and I don't think I ever grabbed someone's crotch but the rules IMO really do apply to us too, and no, not all female attention, overt or otherwise, is always welcomed. Not do I think men 'should be grateful for any attention they get'. Just imagine if someone said that about a fat, homely woman.
I was honestly blown away when that double standard was thrown at me with zero jest.
Very cool read!!!
I think this is nonsense. The girl is communicating that she’s hot, she’s perfectly prepared for that to “land” and people to think she’s hot or press the like button - nasty comments from grown ups are not an appropriate way to communicate that they think she looks hot. If I wear a Star of David I’m communicating that I’m Jewish - I’m prepared for everyone to understand that. If someone attacks me, cusses me out and throws paint or acid at me - that’s them being violent and horrible not me communicating wrong. Additionally when it comes to women’s attractiveness there’s a decades, centuries long pressure on them that they Have to communicate that they’re attractive or they won’t be taken seriously professionally or treated well in everyday errands. For example, to me stilettos communicate sex and are impractical as fuck. But women not wearing heels have literally been told they’re not professional and it’s not random that Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris and Nicki Haley all constantly wear heels - they feel it’s the safe correct choice and not because they’re communicating that they’re looking for lovers or sexual compliments from everyone.
I see where you're coming from but I don't completely agree with the conclusion. The goal of this essay is to really ensure we ARE looking at all the communication implications.
More often than not, in my world, women who wear heels are not taken as seriously as those who don't.
As far as the girl in the video, she is prepared in part. But we aren't talking about nasty comments from adults, they are trying to protect her.
To your point of the Star of David, remember the number of times I caveated that I'm not victim blaming for bad behavior.
Yes you caveat but that makes the rest not make sense. Because what are they trying to protect her from except for bad behavior on other’s part? It only makes sense if the argument is that - communicating you’re attractive makes it okay for people to do X where X is unpleasant and bad behavior on someone else’s part.
That's not my goal but it is. You don't have the freedom to communicate anything divorced from interpretation. That's like covering yourself in steaks and jumping into a shark tank and being upset at the outcome.
What is that last sentence but victim blaming? Human beings aren’t sharks and are responsible for their own actions. I wouldn’t be surprised to be attacked but it would still be wrong, on their part, not mine.
Now actual interpretation - like “hmm, he isn’t dressed corporately enough for the image we want to project so we won’t hire him” is a real thing that young people should be taught but none of it is about inappropriate sexual advances or assault.
I'd recommend re-reading the essay. You're falling victim to logical fallacies. I don't play the 'so what you're saying is' game.
https://www.polymathicbeing.com/p/steelman
Mike, you and I talked about this the other night. So many areas to think about. One of the things that I gave thought about was young me at 21 in 1983. I was an engineering intern and my office group was located in a warehouse. I had to walk through the warehouse to use the restroom. I would get cornered by this man and he would grab my hands and hold them. As much as it seems like an automatic thing for us now, that I should have said "no, this makes me uncomfortable" I didn't know that that was an option. I'm hoping that my younger counterparts are equipped to communicate when they are uncomfortable. I can see how this does fit with what you wrote about. I was a professionally dressed female in a warehouse with ALL men. It makes sense that I would get a response. I'm happy you are raising your children properly. You are having them think. I'm really lucky that my 6 ft tall daughter is way more of a bad ass that I ever was (I wasn't LOL).
Right. Nothing you wore justified his response. A burka wouldn't have helped his behavior either probably. I'm glad we no longer think this is acceptable.
half of my shirts are soccer jerseys. what does that communicate to my sex and the opposites sex?
It communicates a lackadaisical approach, a modern rejection of social norms plus a clear tribal affiliation to a sport and sports teams. If your figure matches the profile of a soccer player it may indicate a level of physical prowess underneath.
If your figure does not match then it creates other questions.
Remember a burka or as one of the commenters pointed out, Punk clothing was intended to thumb their nose at traditional sexual signaling.
To the men, it signals that they'd be comfortably confident to comment on the latest match or footballer drama in the news.