I graduated college with a degree in forest management back in the early 90's. Nothing has changed since then. All that you point out here is true now and was known then. From my perspective it is a problem of rapid development disrupting established routines of management. National forests that have maintained their established routines do well enough. But, areas where public opinion and political pressure disrupt established management routines do exactly as you say. One such example is the I-70 corridor in Colorado. No one wants to see the timber harvest, or the scorch of prescribed fire. Unfortunately, my cynicism holds that there is no way to solve this problem as our current culture favors short term gratification over long term stability. And fire cycles are certainly a long term management issue.
Another insightful gem, along with a new vocabulary word from the LinkedIn piece: "intumescent"
I agree with all of this, except I don't know how Rancho Palos Verdes could find an efficient use for the groundwater they are expelling into the ocean for, according to them, mitigating landslides. It takes considerable time and effort [at tremendous cost if not a long-term solution to a continual problem] to redirect groundwater away from where it happens to be to where it might be used, as is also the issue with stormwater collection.
Also found it noteworthy for a long time that wealthy "environmentalists" enjoy living in the woods or in boreal borderlands, which require significant disturbance to build their "natural" habitats. But such is human hubris. However, there's another problem in modern American society, which is hard to talk about honestly.
Something like this has no apparent logic behind it, unless they want to encourage wildfires:
Isn't it remarkable how the people who are always yammering about climate change don't ever seem to do anything to deal with it effectively? Assuming that's their actual goal. Or perhaps the goal is merely getting rich from "raising awareness" of a problem that is never solved.
The Dad Saves America podcast, along with Reason magazine, takes the libertarian view favoring fatal hubris, best summarized by the idea that "If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists." But that's a much more charitable interpretation than the notion that perhaps they don't care about economics, just as the CCP doesn't really care about the Chinese economy, as long as the party members can live well. Watching the behavioral cues of Gavin Newsom & Karen Bass immediately after the LA fires gave me the distinct impression of barely contained glee. Like watching Mamdani with his smug little smirk as he wrecks New York's economy, while the senior "responsible" Democrat governor forces out her state's financial supporters with similar policies.
Game of Thrones was a more honest reckoning of human nature than anything pundits observe today. Yes, Virginia, some people are psychopaths who really do want to see the world burn. And they get elected by people who don't understand the economic reality of tradeoffs. People who were educated by teachers who can never understand why pro athletes make more money than they do, because they have no business experience--and therefore don't see human nature in all its disturbing complexity.
I wish I could say that conservatives are going to save us, but that's not entirely true either. I'm not expecting Janice Quinones, the woman who emptied the Palisades reservoir for an entire year because of a torn fabric covering [on a reservoir meant for fire control]. Because our govt is a Democrat supermajority, and she's one of them. But I was expecting Alejandro Mayorkas, the one person who could explain the open-border policy during the Biden years, to be called before Congress the way Fauci was some time in the past year and a half. That, oddly, hasn't happened. Just as a handful of Republicans are doing their best to block voter ID laws, but won't say why.
We're in a lot more trouble than most of us realize, because we cannot look at our own society through the eyes of George R. R. Martin. But just look around the entirety of the Western world, and the madness of mass migration, disastrous energy policies, and toxic identity politics. It's a Machiavellian playbook for self-destruction, copied with inexplicable enthusiasm by nearly every Western liberal democracy--and the worse the consequences, the more vigorously they double down on the same insanity.
But all these problems are soluble if a plurality of the public is willing to temporarily shed some of our comforting delusions about human nature. Which happened after WWII; many important books were written about how and why entire nations chose to embrace evil. There were also a few great works written by refugees of communism. But unfortunately, it turns out there is little public appetite for such inquiry after a few years have passed. Much easier to put blame on evil men in dusty old books [preferably in foreign countries] than to stare deeply into the abyss on an otherwise sunny day.
Great points. The larger point I was making on the pumping of ground-water to avoid landslides was that…. they build in an area that has landslides and they keep building there.
On the other hand, it can be a bit difficult for populations and economies to expand if traditional no-go zones are followed religiously. This treadmill began with the human transition from hunter-gatherer and pastoralist to settled agriculture. Why stop now?
This is another example of the Cobra Effect, where a solution ends up making a problem worse. We need to think prevention by learning from the past. And suppression is not the same as prevention.
Contextualizing the naturalness of nature almost seems like blasphemy at present. Somehow, doing so is now an act of bravery rather than common sense. Great piece.
in 1982, I moved to Eugene oregon. I vividly remember the first time I saw an area that had just been clear-cut. nothing could be more natural than the negative emotional reaction to that sight. Yep, it was ugly, but after decades of poor forest management, we know what's worse.
There is too much of this "we" stuff being thrown about. I take issue at being included in this collective "we" when I had nothing to do with any of the consequences caused by this "we" group!
As Vishal said earlier, the we is because we all have a stake, we are all affected, and we all have a voice to do something, even if it's just understanding the situation. It's like the Poem on responsibility:
There was an important job to be done.
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Everybody blamed Somebody when the job was left undone
I'm responsible for me, not anyone else. This is one reason why we have so many social problems these days, because of people sticking their noses into other people's business or telling them how to live their own lives.
For example, I recycle our garbage, making sure everything is in the right cans. One of my neighbors makes no effort to do so. He says he doesn't care, that's what the garbage people get paid for. Should I harangue him like so many self-described "activists" do today about so many things?
True, but we haven't had anything to do with the invention of the comfort we enjoy today. We spent money to buy a phone, for instance, but did nothing for its invention.
When we become selective in action, we become a society that absolves responsibility, constantly saying, "it's someone else's problem."
Timely piece. Here in western Montana everything is seemingly on fire. August means smoky air and the constant drumbeat of one group of people yelling about "why didn't you put the fire out immediately? Must be the federal money..." and one group saying "well you should've done more prescribed burns earlier in the season." Either way, someone is mad (usually the people who moved here from the west coast). They don't want smoky air, but they don't want to touch the forest either, and they cannot seem to grasp that you can't have both. They also seem to prefer the snarled mess of an unmanaged forest to the clean and much safer spacing of a properly managed one...and then wonder why for three months out of the year everything is on fire, or why after one of the dry lightning storms new fires pop up for 2 weeks straight. Oh, and don't tell them they can't have campfires either because it's so dry you can start a wildland fire practically breathing wrong. They moved here to "enjoy the land" and by God, they're gonna. If I had a nickel for every fire I worked on caused by pure human stupidity...
Ugh. Great piece, viscerally maddening topic for me.
Yep. All the layers of Hubris. What I found interesting as well are the old stories of Native Americans, typically on the east coast, where our colonist (best sense) mythos was hacking through unforgiving wilderness when, the reality were more open glades because the natives used the wood and intentionally set fires to be defensive.
Well researched and thorough dissection of a complex topic once again. As I read your piece, I rolled through a variety of emotions- sadness, anger, confusion, frustration, and ultimately laughter at the milktvech plant irony. It reminded me how complex the world is around us. Oftentimes, we see a minor fraction of the issue and subsequent “solution” inevitably kickstart an unintended consequence. Further, it also highlights how impressive human’s dispersion across the planet truly is. We are able to survive in such a diverse landscape and climate patterns. Nature is like an unruly sibling that every once in a while causes unreal havoc. It’s humbling to acknowledge each day without epic destruction is a blessing in and of itself.
For what it’s worth, you could (and might have already) made an analogy to the body’s immune system with it’s controlled burn tendency to sacrifice certain immune cells through apoptosis that maintains the system’s balances. Truly remarkable!
I graduated college with a degree in forest management back in the early 90's. Nothing has changed since then. All that you point out here is true now and was known then. From my perspective it is a problem of rapid development disrupting established routines of management. National forests that have maintained their established routines do well enough. But, areas where public opinion and political pressure disrupt established management routines do exactly as you say. One such example is the I-70 corridor in Colorado. No one wants to see the timber harvest, or the scorch of prescribed fire. Unfortunately, my cynicism holds that there is no way to solve this problem as our current culture favors short term gratification over long term stability. And fire cycles are certainly a long term management issue.
Great points and the I-70 example is great. Fire management is long term in the form of decades.
That's about the long and the short of it...
Another insightful gem, along with a new vocabulary word from the LinkedIn piece: "intumescent"
I agree with all of this, except I don't know how Rancho Palos Verdes could find an efficient use for the groundwater they are expelling into the ocean for, according to them, mitigating landslides. It takes considerable time and effort [at tremendous cost if not a long-term solution to a continual problem] to redirect groundwater away from where it happens to be to where it might be used, as is also the issue with stormwater collection.
Also found it noteworthy for a long time that wealthy "environmentalists" enjoy living in the woods or in boreal borderlands, which require significant disturbance to build their "natural" habitats. But such is human hubris. However, there's another problem in modern American society, which is hard to talk about honestly.
Something like this has no apparent logic behind it, unless they want to encourage wildfires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLAFyuVS49s
Neither does the political dysfunction in the LA fire department, or this uncomfortable fact:
https://abc7.com/post/fire-victims-frustrated-santa-ynez-reservoir-was-empty-during-palisades-is-dry/18956367/
Isn't it remarkable how the people who are always yammering about climate change don't ever seem to do anything to deal with it effectively? Assuming that's their actual goal. Or perhaps the goal is merely getting rich from "raising awareness" of a problem that is never solved.
The Dad Saves America podcast, along with Reason magazine, takes the libertarian view favoring fatal hubris, best summarized by the idea that "If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists." But that's a much more charitable interpretation than the notion that perhaps they don't care about economics, just as the CCP doesn't really care about the Chinese economy, as long as the party members can live well. Watching the behavioral cues of Gavin Newsom & Karen Bass immediately after the LA fires gave me the distinct impression of barely contained glee. Like watching Mamdani with his smug little smirk as he wrecks New York's economy, while the senior "responsible" Democrat governor forces out her state's financial supporters with similar policies.
Game of Thrones was a more honest reckoning of human nature than anything pundits observe today. Yes, Virginia, some people are psychopaths who really do want to see the world burn. And they get elected by people who don't understand the economic reality of tradeoffs. People who were educated by teachers who can never understand why pro athletes make more money than they do, because they have no business experience--and therefore don't see human nature in all its disturbing complexity.
I wish I could say that conservatives are going to save us, but that's not entirely true either. I'm not expecting Janice Quinones, the woman who emptied the Palisades reservoir for an entire year because of a torn fabric covering [on a reservoir meant for fire control]. Because our govt is a Democrat supermajority, and she's one of them. But I was expecting Alejandro Mayorkas, the one person who could explain the open-border policy during the Biden years, to be called before Congress the way Fauci was some time in the past year and a half. That, oddly, hasn't happened. Just as a handful of Republicans are doing their best to block voter ID laws, but won't say why.
We're in a lot more trouble than most of us realize, because we cannot look at our own society through the eyes of George R. R. Martin. But just look around the entirety of the Western world, and the madness of mass migration, disastrous energy policies, and toxic identity politics. It's a Machiavellian playbook for self-destruction, copied with inexplicable enthusiasm by nearly every Western liberal democracy--and the worse the consequences, the more vigorously they double down on the same insanity.
But all these problems are soluble if a plurality of the public is willing to temporarily shed some of our comforting delusions about human nature. Which happened after WWII; many important books were written about how and why entire nations chose to embrace evil. There were also a few great works written by refugees of communism. But unfortunately, it turns out there is little public appetite for such inquiry after a few years have passed. Much easier to put blame on evil men in dusty old books [preferably in foreign countries] than to stare deeply into the abyss on an otherwise sunny day.
Great points. The larger point I was making on the pumping of ground-water to avoid landslides was that…. they build in an area that has landslides and they keep building there.
On the other hand, it can be a bit difficult for populations and economies to expand if traditional no-go zones are followed religiously. This treadmill began with the human transition from hunter-gatherer and pastoralist to settled agriculture. Why stop now?
Insightful post.
This is another example of the Cobra Effect, where a solution ends up making a problem worse. We need to think prevention by learning from the past. And suppression is not the same as prevention.
This is very related to the Cobra effect in many ways.
Contextualizing the naturalness of nature almost seems like blasphemy at present. Somehow, doing so is now an act of bravery rather than common sense. Great piece.
It’s that the crazy part. Like you’re writing on the savage human psyche is divergent yet…. that’s who we are! Hubris!
in 1982, I moved to Eugene oregon. I vividly remember the first time I saw an area that had just been clear-cut. nothing could be more natural than the negative emotional reaction to that sight. Yep, it was ugly, but after decades of poor forest management, we know what's worse.
They’re getting smarter with the logging too. The techniques of back then aren’t used and the machines make much less impact.
Which makes our persistence mismanagement even more damning.
You might have done this on purpose, but the actual character is named Smokey Bear, not Smoky the Bear.
I knew that looked wrong. I fixed it. Thanks!
There is too much of this "we" stuff being thrown about. I take issue at being included in this collective "we" when I had nothing to do with any of the consequences caused by this "we" group!
As Vishal said earlier, the we is because we all have a stake, we are all affected, and we all have a voice to do something, even if it's just understanding the situation. It's like the Poem on responsibility:
There was an important job to be done.
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Everybody blamed Somebody when the job was left undone
Too idealistic for my tastes.
I'm responsible for me, not anyone else. This is one reason why we have so many social problems these days, because of people sticking their noses into other people's business or telling them how to live their own lives.
For example, I recycle our garbage, making sure everything is in the right cans. One of my neighbors makes no effort to do so. He says he doesn't care, that's what the garbage people get paid for. Should I harangue him like so many self-described "activists" do today about so many things?
True, but we haven't had anything to do with the invention of the comfort we enjoy today. We spent money to buy a phone, for instance, but did nothing for its invention.
When we become selective in action, we become a society that absolves responsibility, constantly saying, "it's someone else's problem."
Timely piece. Here in western Montana everything is seemingly on fire. August means smoky air and the constant drumbeat of one group of people yelling about "why didn't you put the fire out immediately? Must be the federal money..." and one group saying "well you should've done more prescribed burns earlier in the season." Either way, someone is mad (usually the people who moved here from the west coast). They don't want smoky air, but they don't want to touch the forest either, and they cannot seem to grasp that you can't have both. They also seem to prefer the snarled mess of an unmanaged forest to the clean and much safer spacing of a properly managed one...and then wonder why for three months out of the year everything is on fire, or why after one of the dry lightning storms new fires pop up for 2 weeks straight. Oh, and don't tell them they can't have campfires either because it's so dry you can start a wildland fire practically breathing wrong. They moved here to "enjoy the land" and by God, they're gonna. If I had a nickel for every fire I worked on caused by pure human stupidity...
Ugh. Great piece, viscerally maddening topic for me.
Yep. All the layers of Hubris. What I found interesting as well are the old stories of Native Americans, typically on the east coast, where our colonist (best sense) mythos was hacking through unforgiving wilderness when, the reality were more open glades because the natives used the wood and intentionally set fires to be defensive.
Well researched and thorough dissection of a complex topic once again. As I read your piece, I rolled through a variety of emotions- sadness, anger, confusion, frustration, and ultimately laughter at the milktvech plant irony. It reminded me how complex the world is around us. Oftentimes, we see a minor fraction of the issue and subsequent “solution” inevitably kickstart an unintended consequence. Further, it also highlights how impressive human’s dispersion across the planet truly is. We are able to survive in such a diverse landscape and climate patterns. Nature is like an unruly sibling that every once in a while causes unreal havoc. It’s humbling to acknowledge each day without epic destruction is a blessing in and of itself.
For what it’s worth, you could (and might have already) made an analogy to the body’s immune system with it’s controlled burn tendency to sacrifice certain immune cells through apoptosis that maintains the system’s balances. Truly remarkable!
That's awesome and I hadn't made the connection to the immune system but that's very apropos. Thank you for that!