Wow, I’m fully in line with the concepts you’ve outlined! I have a question though, and I’m curious to know what you think. Do you see a difference between a self-imposed hardship that tries to fulfill this function vs an established ritual or societal tradition? I believe we’ve lost those rituals, for the most part, but I wonder if attempting to reclaim it on an individual level rings a bit hollow? Ranger school certainly fulfills it, but would a hard solo backpacking trip really be able to give a similar transformation? Or is what I’m describing simply the seeking of external validation? Thoughts?
I absolutely think that it can be solo. Akin to your own adventures, that solo element is a death to itself as you reorient away from the social pressures. However, for a boy, I think the ritual is important as well. At the foundation, though, this death is very personal, very solo, even when surrounded by others.
So essentially opposite of the way I was thinking of it. The rites of passage and rituals may be a valid path for acceptance in society, but ultimately they are only guardrails for a purely individual acceptance of death. That’s profound! Thank you!
Hmm, I do strongly identify with that feeling of loss of community. I think there must be some level of universal recognition amongst men who have experienced the death of their former selves and the transformation that comes of it. But membership in societally defined ‘elite’ groups is a powerful thing in itself, not easily dismissed.
I think we’ll see a resurgence of that soon. But we have to be able to stand up against the shrieking feminists and accusations of patriarchy because what we need are the patriarchical structures that train strong men. Ironically, when women want access to men’s spaces, they can’t / don’t want to go through these rituals and so demand their removal.
I think the thing is with solo side quests(at least for me) is I completely lost all of my community as a result. Some needed to be cut away to allow the growth, but other parts fell away unintended. Regaining new community has been difficult. Im older which doesnt help either but the issue is most of the people in a ritual oriented community (ie thruhikers) dont cross into other communities (ie motorcycle racing) If you do cross between communities searching for that ritual closure you will have a tough time joining new communities, basically because you have a diffrent origin story, and they think your a tourist. Although I prefer the term renaissance
That’s a fair point about having to rebuild the community. For Erik, it’s more of long weekend / week hikes not the shedding of the core community if I’m understanding his background right.
I think thats correct, although then my question would be are you going deep enough or just cos playing? No disrespect intended to Eric, I just dont know another way to frame it
There's a really easy answer to all this that no one wants to hear. Boys should be raised and educated almost exclusively by men with maybe 20% of there time in a mixed gender environment for proper socialisation with the opposite sex. During that 20% of time there should be both male and female role models present for guidance. This should be the default environment up until at least the end of high school. The thing is the world doesnt really want men as they are, they want a female construct. Until we realise thats the problem these issues will continue. Hopefully there are a few men left at that point to act as role models
The tribal cultures in Australia and Paupa New Guinea and elsewhere typically have initiation rituals where the boy is physically removed and not allowed back in contact with the women until he marries and, even then, the patriarchy and the matriarchy only meet in the marriage bed. There’s something to that which is important to not forget. Like we explored in Embracing Bromance, we’ve lost almost all male only spaces.
Really I think for the most part we should revert to male and female only spaces for the most part, Im probably in the minority on this but I also think we should move towards arranged marriages, at this point most female dating practices are far more inline with arranged marriage practice than love marriage practice, maybe its been this way forever and as males we've just been holding out hope that the only reason shes with is is because we are special. Its time for men to take the blinders off so that its a level playing field. Its sort of happening now but in a creepy bad way, the issue needs to be out in the open and discussed honestly between the sexes.
I’m not opposed the arranged mariages. Where they occur, there’s a lot of positives and, while there are negatives, I don’t see them as worse than what we have today!
“Society has provided [children] no rituals by which they become members of the tribe, of the community. All children need to be twice born, to learn to function rationally in the present world, leaving childhood behind.” — Joseph Campbell
Fully endorse the points laid out here! Lived 32 years single, and after marriage and starting a family I can say that life has never contained more meaning. Each hour, each day provides many hardships. Yet, the struggle is satisfying. I compare that to bachelorhood which offered many highs, but all were exhaustible.
Interesting perspective and I generally agree but I think you're discounting an important aspect of this concept. Something that's illustrated by one of my favourite Michael J Fox quotes:
"If you imagine the worst thing that happens to you and then it happens to you, you've lived it twice."
I appreciate that people like to believe that video games and other ways of engaging the world like movies and television are a negative way of relating to the world, but it can be positive if done right. This is backed up by science in that when you watch a movie or a TV show, you often experience the same emotions as the actor is creating on screen. So you experience the emotions of someone going through a terrible ordeal and that gives you insight into yourself and how to feel about that type of situation.
Video games and other media can provide the framework to understand the world. Maybe the most obvious example of this is in the AI debate over the worry of a Skynet style event. The reason why people are afraid of it is because they emotionally identified with John and Sarah Connor and understood what the potential dangers of AI are.
The same can be said of video games and movies in other contexts. You can become a better person through this process and metaphorically "die" in the example you gave in your essay.
Well you talked about the idea of killing the ego and other aspects of yourself that allow you to become a man. I think that film, television and video games along with other media can allow you to kill the parts of you that are causing you not to become a man.
Wow, I’m fully in line with the concepts you’ve outlined! I have a question though, and I’m curious to know what you think. Do you see a difference between a self-imposed hardship that tries to fulfill this function vs an established ritual or societal tradition? I believe we’ve lost those rituals, for the most part, but I wonder if attempting to reclaim it on an individual level rings a bit hollow? Ranger school certainly fulfills it, but would a hard solo backpacking trip really be able to give a similar transformation? Or is what I’m describing simply the seeking of external validation? Thoughts?
I absolutely think that it can be solo. Akin to your own adventures, that solo element is a death to itself as you reorient away from the social pressures. However, for a boy, I think the ritual is important as well. At the foundation, though, this death is very personal, very solo, even when surrounded by others.
So essentially opposite of the way I was thinking of it. The rites of passage and rituals may be a valid path for acceptance in society, but ultimately they are only guardrails for a purely individual acceptance of death. That’s profound! Thank you!
I like how you stated that and agree! Society doesn’t kill you. You die to yourself.
Hmm, I do strongly identify with that feeling of loss of community. I think there must be some level of universal recognition amongst men who have experienced the death of their former selves and the transformation that comes of it. But membership in societally defined ‘elite’ groups is a powerful thing in itself, not easily dismissed.
I think we’ll see a resurgence of that soon. But we have to be able to stand up against the shrieking feminists and accusations of patriarchy because what we need are the patriarchical structures that train strong men. Ironically, when women want access to men’s spaces, they can’t / don’t want to go through these rituals and so demand their removal.
I think the thing is with solo side quests(at least for me) is I completely lost all of my community as a result. Some needed to be cut away to allow the growth, but other parts fell away unintended. Regaining new community has been difficult. Im older which doesnt help either but the issue is most of the people in a ritual oriented community (ie thruhikers) dont cross into other communities (ie motorcycle racing) If you do cross between communities searching for that ritual closure you will have a tough time joining new communities, basically because you have a diffrent origin story, and they think your a tourist. Although I prefer the term renaissance
man :)
That’s a fair point about having to rebuild the community. For Erik, it’s more of long weekend / week hikes not the shedding of the core community if I’m understanding his background right.
I think thats correct, although then my question would be are you going deep enough or just cos playing? No disrespect intended to Eric, I just dont know another way to frame it
I think that depends. Some need to go deeper. But Erik has quiet a deep background beyond hiking.
There's a really easy answer to all this that no one wants to hear. Boys should be raised and educated almost exclusively by men with maybe 20% of there time in a mixed gender environment for proper socialisation with the opposite sex. During that 20% of time there should be both male and female role models present for guidance. This should be the default environment up until at least the end of high school. The thing is the world doesnt really want men as they are, they want a female construct. Until we realise thats the problem these issues will continue. Hopefully there are a few men left at that point to act as role models
The tribal cultures in Australia and Paupa New Guinea and elsewhere typically have initiation rituals where the boy is physically removed and not allowed back in contact with the women until he marries and, even then, the patriarchy and the matriarchy only meet in the marriage bed. There’s something to that which is important to not forget. Like we explored in Embracing Bromance, we’ve lost almost all male only spaces.
Really I think for the most part we should revert to male and female only spaces for the most part, Im probably in the minority on this but I also think we should move towards arranged marriages, at this point most female dating practices are far more inline with arranged marriage practice than love marriage practice, maybe its been this way forever and as males we've just been holding out hope that the only reason shes with is is because we are special. Its time for men to take the blinders off so that its a level playing field. Its sort of happening now but in a creepy bad way, the issue needs to be out in the open and discussed honestly between the sexes.
I’m not opposed the arranged mariages. Where they occur, there’s a lot of positives and, while there are negatives, I don’t see them as worse than what we have today!
“Society has provided [children] no rituals by which they become members of the tribe, of the community. All children need to be twice born, to learn to function rationally in the present world, leaving childhood behind.” — Joseph Campbell
Great quote and spot on!
Fully endorse the points laid out here! Lived 32 years single, and after marriage and starting a family I can say that life has never contained more meaning. Each hour, each day provides many hardships. Yet, the struggle is satisfying. I compare that to bachelorhood which offered many highs, but all were exhaustible.
That's awesome! I've been working on an idea on fulfillment that I hope to out to keyboard soon.
Sounds like a banger! Can’t wait 🤜🤜
Interesting perspective and I generally agree but I think you're discounting an important aspect of this concept. Something that's illustrated by one of my favourite Michael J Fox quotes:
"If you imagine the worst thing that happens to you and then it happens to you, you've lived it twice."
I appreciate that people like to believe that video games and other ways of engaging the world like movies and television are a negative way of relating to the world, but it can be positive if done right. This is backed up by science in that when you watch a movie or a TV show, you often experience the same emotions as the actor is creating on screen. So you experience the emotions of someone going through a terrible ordeal and that gives you insight into yourself and how to feel about that type of situation.
Video games and other media can provide the framework to understand the world. Maybe the most obvious example of this is in the AI debate over the worry of a Skynet style event. The reason why people are afraid of it is because they emotionally identified with John and Sarah Connor and understood what the potential dangers of AI are.
The same can be said of video games and movies in other contexts. You can become a better person through this process and metaphorically "die" in the example you gave in your essay.
I can see that but I'm not sure in the connection to death the same way. I'm tracking everything else.
Well you talked about the idea of killing the ego and other aspects of yourself that allow you to become a man. I think that film, television and video games along with other media can allow you to kill the parts of you that are causing you not to become a man.
This reminds me of the quote: “Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.” We have a lot of male gardeners LARPing war-play.
Agree. And I kept thinking about “I Am” as I wrote this because we are talking about embodyment here. LARPers are seekers at best.
Fantastic piece. This really strikes to the core of what's missing in men these days!
Awesome to hear!